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Episode 005

James Bonding

GOLDFINGER with Alie and…

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James Bonding #005: GOLDFINGER with Alie and Georgia

Alie and Georgia come on the podcast to talk about the controversy they found in Goldfinger!

Follow @JamesBondingPOD@MattMira, and @MattGourley on Twitter!

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183 comments

  • I know I’m late to the game on this one, but I want to point out that this is probably my FAVORITE episode of James Bonding, and, as an avid re-listener, one of my most visited along with the Die Another Day ep. I’ll admit to being a huge fan of Alie and Georgia in general, which is clearly not the case of many of these other commenters, but I genuinely thing that anyone not blinded by fanboy love for this movie (which I’ve never understood– it’s not even the best Connery, let alone the best Bond film) and bubbling with misogyny can see that this is one of the FUNNIEST episodes of this podcast. It may not have been the most technical in terms of dissecting the movie, but the podcast is just as much an exercise in comedy as it is in Bond appreciation, and that was where it really succeeded for me. Almost as funny (and unsurprising) is the adolescent whining of the quintessential never-touched-a-girl, live-in-their-parents-basement commenters on this thread.

  • I found the guests to be entertaining but also annoying. You really need to suspend your disbelief and if you can’t do that how do you enjoy anything?

  • I know this is an “old” podcast, but I am just now catching up and listening through.

    I am a woman and a feminist from birth, born on International Women’s Day in what was declared at the time by Gloria Steinem to be “The Year of the Woman”.

    I have many fond memories of watching James Bond films with my father (and spaghetti westerns) from a very young age, and seeing Octopussy in a theatre. My mother is NOT someone who was gagged and tied in a closet (as was asserted by your guests if someone had a father who watched these films) and would take me to ERA demonstrations and was a very active member of NOW even when, on Sunday nights, we would watch James Bond films when possible on television (it was the 1970′s and 1980′s).

    I see the films for what they were–a fantasy filled with cool gadgets, a World’s Fair-like display of extravagant cars, wines, foods, and travel destinations, and very far-fetched super-villains and contrived methods for gaining power and Bond keeping them at bay. I had to turn podcast off because of how offended I was by the depictions of my life and the life of my parents made by your guests who went into this project with their minds made up about what they were going to see within the first 25 seconds (“I hate James Bond”) and then being distracted and pretty much avoiding what was being asked of them.

    I love these films, not because I think that James Bond is the epitome of masculinity and I wish in my heart of hearts I was a Bond Girl even though it would mean death by the end of the film, but because they are such a fun memory to share with my family and friends, the music is (usually) wonderful, the stories are entertaining (not deep or insightful with some deep meaning which I expect to change my life, but entertaining), and each one is a small time-capsule of the time in which it was written (such as the books focusing so much on “exotic” foods when England was still in post WWII rationing). They are escapism–not how real people do or should live.

    My parents also made sure I read the Bible and was familiar with the religious books and practices of the main religions which surrounded us, but I lived in an Atheist household; they wanted me to understand that something can be appreciated for its entertainment value and meaning at that point in history (I read a lot of history too to explain the world in which those religious texts were written) and to learn about something before judging it. Oh, I am still a devout atheist, but aware of why and also aware of what others believe. Reading religious texts didn’t convert me just as playing video games doesn’t make me a serial killer, and appreciating James Bond films for what they are doesn’t make me no longer be a feminist.

    The display of willful ignorance and the insults spewed out by your guests, unknowingly, about people who watch these films made me have to remind myself of what feminism really is about–the ability to make choices not constrained by one’s gender, either male or female. So I made my choice to stop listening to this episode after 15 minutes and continue on to the next one.

    Thanks!

  • I have no issue with them having an issue with the misogyny of the movie, but to express that issue at the expense of every other aspect is a disservice to the broader discussion. It’s like discussing Rambo and continually haranguing the host over it’s excessive violence…once the obvious point has been made tediously hammering it over and over becomes a dreary begging of the question.

    I can deal with shrill and strident, but shrill, strident, and boring is a deal breaker. I’m sure they are lovely people outside of this context, but they sucked all the life and joy out of this one.

  • I only watched these old Bond films for the first time last year and rolled eyes at many scenes that today could be interpreted as rape. With all movies I take to the wiki page and those moments are referred to as “seducing,” so maybe it’s worth recognizing the 1960s were a different, more ignorant time at the dawn of the sexual revolution. The only real criticism I have is that the drink talk was more excruciating then the underwater scenes in Thunderball, at one point I fast forwarded 10 minutes and it was still talk about drinks.

  • I quit listening after the complaint that Bond did not get therapy after finding Jill dead. To make that comment shows no interest in discussing not only Bond films, but any action film. It is certainly a valid opinion to hate action films, but for purposes of this podcast it is not a useful opinion. Please have guests who will at least try to further the discussion.

  • I really enjoy the “James Bonding” pod casts, I can listen to them multiple times because they are informative and down right funny. One that I will never listen to again is the “Goldfinger” episode.

    Alie and Georgia’s attitude ruined the episode. It is not that I do not think the movie is misogynistic, in fact it is, but that is one aspect of the film. It seemed, to me, that the women could not see past this in any way. Even if they might have liked a part they would not admit it as if they were afraid it may somehow give validity to how this movie treated women.

    Hearing the same thing for 90 minutes spoken with such anger behind it is not entertaining. Their attitude made me want to stay away from anything they are involved in. If they showed a quantum of interest in the other aspects of the movie perhaps I could listen to it again but they could not. One of them did not even watch the entire movie, that is disrespectful to the Matts as well as the fans of the podcast.

  • Jesus wept. “It’s like totally fucking..like..fucking..like, like fucking really like fucking offensive to women”…What a humourless pair. Kudos to the hosts for showing superhuman restraint..should’ve defended the fantasy element more though.

  • Well this is what happens when you fall behind a podcast! I finally listened to this podcast and it was not good. I am not going to personally attack the guests because they were The Matts guests. But I can’t tiptoe around the fact that it was hard to listen to. Would I like to see a redo? Yes. But I don’t think the Matts would do that to disrespect their guest’s opinons

    I think it would have been better served to have them to at least watch one film from each eras of Bond and talk about the women in that. I don’t know if they would have been willing to invest that time but at least this could have been a stand-alone episode and we could have had a discussion of Goldfinger as a film.

    I enjoy the podcast and now on to Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace!

  • I just re-listened to this one after getting the bond box set. I can’t believe I sat through this a second time. It’s ironic that they refuse to talk about anything but overly feminist subject but do it in an a way that, if they were men, would be considered incredibly rude and demoralizing.

    And they also force Matt and Matt to talk about incredibly girly things. C’mon, ladies. Can’t you like anything other than girly drinks and Pinterest just because your girls? I find that incredibly belittling to women. Next time you come on someone’s podcast try to avoid crapping all over them for an hour and a half. It’s just plain rude no matter your gender.

  • What a.horrible way for me to discover your podcast. What moronic and ill informed female guests. How could any Bond fans sit through listening to these idiots? I hope none of your other podcasts feature guests who don’t know or appreciate Bond. Why didn’t you have a flirt fest with these idiots over a Roger Moore outing instead of Goldfinger?Shoul I even attempt to listen to another podcast episode? What a disappointment.

  • I love this podcast, it’s awesome. but this episode, wow, what awful awful guests, i felt so sorry for matt and matt having to put up with these two awful human beings.

  • Amazing episode, and fantastic guests you guys!

    It made me sad that, in a future episode (I’m listening to them out-of-order), you guys mentioned some of the negativity some listeners threw their way – shameful. They were charming guests, and besides getting off-topic occasionally (something all episodes of all podcasts do), they were pretty insightful. Not like any of the misogyny was layered deep down into this movie, but it was glad to talk about it and get this conversation going regardless. And you couldn’t pick more charming, entertaining guests to do it :)

    I’d love it if you got them back for a modern Bond movie discussion somehow. Alie & Georgia really seem like awesome & fun additions to this thing.

    Great episode, another dusty old movie though :P As a Bond fan from the 90′s, I am absolutely afraid to check these older ones out. Despite many opportunities to do so, thanks to myriad marathons on SyFy or BBC America or whatever. I DO feel a lot better about defending Daniel Craig as the best Bond now, though :D

    “Man Talk” — “Spank us out!” lol.

  • What can be said that hasn’t been already? I certainly won’t stoop to senseless name-calling. In fact, I avoid using the term “feminazi” due to its origin. But it should be stated that I’ve encountered this mindset quite a bit recently and I find it to be insulting and demoralizing. One could liken that to how a woman may feel seeing another being aggressively seduced or playfully swatted, but is that behavior really that criminal? I’ve been on the receiving end of a playful rear slapping in a public setting and I wasn’t left emotionally scarred over it. Putting the subject matter aside, it’s even more bothersome that these two guests seemed to have made up their mind from the beginning, all the way to going as far to criticize the use of a villainous as a human shield. There was no perspective, especially on a historical level, and no recognition of tongue-in-cheek whatsoever. I apologize to the Matts for using this forum to criticize people they consider friends but I simply found their points to be biased, legitimately sexist, and all-around useless.

  • So I’m here via the AV Club and consider myself a huge Bond fan. This episode specifically was referenced in a thread and I decided to check it out due to curiosity about its controversy. And I must admit, it was a chore to sit through. How would this be any different than Georgia and Alie having an alcohol themed podcast with guests who reveal themselves to be teetotallers?

    So much of this was arbitrary, hypocritical snark. Odd. Will listen to a few more and see what other guests bring to table.

  • I’m sure your sick of hearing it but the Goldfinger episode was an affront to Bond fans everywhere. I can appreciate the fine art of friendly critique but good lord wtf!!!! The part that really irritated me was the guests complete disrespect for both of the Matts. Not only did they come completely unprepared to discuss the movie but they hijacked the conversation and dominated the direction. At least one of them had the honesty to admit they tuned out and switched to Pinterest and other websites.

    It wasn’t so much their shocking lack of appreciation for the movie that drove me nuts – it was their treatment of both of the Matts. I felt like they were just there to shill their own gig.

    Love the podcast hated that episode. Alie and Georgia owe the Matts an apology.

  • Alie and Georgia need to have a sense of humor *spanked* into them.

    Also, I’m not certain how effectively a film can be critiqued if the hosts are constantly apologising for being male.

  • Polarizing episode. I have to know whether it was done intentionally. My only problem with this style of episode is that you spent that last 15-20 minutes talking about drinks, because no one wanted to discuss the movie.

  • Just listened to this episode. I don’t have a problem with Alie and Georgia’s opinions on sexism but rather on their view that racism “doesn’t happen anymore.” I don’t remember who exactly said it but I will relisten to make sure that I didn’t mis-hear that statement.

  • Alie and Georgia made some valid points in this episode. I feel like they were more negative than other guests had been up to that point. Saying that you’ve decided you hate James Bond before the opening credits roll, that just seems spiteful to Matt and Matt.

  • I thought this was a fantastic episode. Seriously, one of the best. I love the Bond films, and I love Goldfinger (my second favorite Bond film), but I’m not blind to their issues, and I thought Alie and Georgia were hilarious.

    I’m really shocked to see the comments in this thread. And anyone who attacked these podcast guests directly should be goddamned ashamed. What a disgusting, ungrateful, pathetic, cowardly thing to do.

    Bond is a big series with a lot of broad styles and tropes. Some people love it (I am one) some people hate it (and they have every right – as long as they are insightful or funny in their opinion, both of which these guests were).

    I can’t imagine anything more boring than a podcast series that was simply a laundry list of ‘I loved this…’ and ‘I loved that…’ Directors, producers, actors and viewers all bring something different to the franchise – that’s what has kept it going for 50 years now – and to suggest that some audience members don’t have the right to speak if they saw something they didn’t like, or if they are not willing to just gush praise at the screen is infantile.

    If your love of Goldfinger (and Bond in general) can’t withstand some legitimate (and funny) criticism, then it’s not the people criticizing who are to blame. You just need to grow up.

    Thanks for the podcast, guys, and thanks Alie and Georgia – you were great. I genuinely hope to see them back – perhaps to see a Craig era Bond to see how things have changed.

  • Please do it again. There were obviously interesting bits you missed commenting on when the timeline got lost. The guests comments were fine for me and could have been enjoyable but once the thread was lost it was just annoying. Still it was better than Harrison Ford. HA!

  • I’m waaaaay late for the hate-fest in this comment page. No loss.

    Matt(s), I really enjoyed this episode and your guests’ refreshing and funny take from their modern, non-fan perspective. It made a very nice contrast to the Casino Royale pod with Amanda and Maria.

    Matt Gourley: I love the characterized Brit accent. I grin every time I hear it!

  • I hope Goldfinger gets a second pass, because that film does not deserve this episode of the show. If I wanted to listen to people shit on the things I love, I would hang out with my friends.

  • In the cold open, Bond is attacked by a thug and kills him by pushing him in a bathtub, then tossing a radio in with him. Do you think this electrocution was an intentional foreshadowing of the way he would finally defeat Oddjob?

    (By the way, I’ve probably seen this movie 50 times, and I’d never made that connection until last month, when it was pointed out to me as I watched it with my 5-year-old.)

  • I would recommend renaming this episode “Fun with Feminists” but that would demean the word “fun”. Has anyone bothered to explain to these women about the genre of fantasy ? Maybe they can look at some cheesy situational porn and get a clue.

  • I really hope you go back and redo Goldfinger with a guest who likes the movie, and is as knowledgeable or at least as enthusiastic about the series as the Matts. Not attacking the guests for their opinion, it’s just that there’s so much to discuss about how this movie created the the tropes that would last for the next 45+ years and influenced not just all future Bond flicks but most action films in general, that this was really a wasted opportunity.

    Let’s put it this way – Matt Mira, if you sat down to listen to a Star Trek podcast, and the only thing the guest was interested in talking about was the sexism in “Turnabout Intruder” how much would you enjoy the episode?

  • So…yes, I was annoyed at first but now looking back on early Bond films, holy crap. Bond WAS such a psycho! It was like Mad Men without the examination and justification. lol

    Great job Allie and Georgia. I respect you. :) No, I’m not “White Knighting,” I was genuinely annoyed but then I dropped my entitlement issues and realized…dude, Bond was fucked in the head.

    Still love these films no matter what.

  • I made it 45 minutes through before switching off. Such negative guests. Even valid points presented so negatively without humour became awful to listen too. Super obnoxious guests. Ah well – onwards and upwards!

  • I’m coming late to this comment party, but I’ll chip in my thoughts anyway. The episode was good for me, but think a little more structure could have improved it. Alie and Georgia seem to stymie any further conversation, which stopped interesting trivia from coming out. If Matt & Matt could have channeled them into a quick “Top 5 most insulting moments” or allowed a quick “what is wrong with this scene” then they could have moved on with other stuff.

    Still, I like the theory of bringing in newbies to the Bond franchise and if they hate the movie, then that’s fine. The episode can still be interesting. But maybe a bit of structure could carry the episodes through the awkward parts.

    Speaking of which, I would like to see a Tropes segment. Bond has his own tropes, so it would be fun to call them out. If not a segment, then just calling them out right before you say it.

  • At the risk of taking the side of some of the huge idiots in this thread…I really wish you stuck to people that like the Bond movies. ESPECIALLY for Goldfinger. I was looking forward to an in-depth discussion of the quintessential Bond movie, but it really got sidetracked. And it’s not like I disagree, but the podcast got so vitriolic that I couldn’t enjoy it. Was it an interesting discussion? Well, maybe at first. It got to the point of hyperbole and nothing was really being discussed, they were just jumping on every topic with the same approach.

  • This is my favorite episode as of yet of a podcast I very much enjoy. Please try to have them back for another episode or ten. And thank you for doing the podcast.

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